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10,841. A man cannot stay outside in these small boats?-No; the weather is always getting worse, and the sea getting higher and higher on them, and they must run for the laud.10,842. But with a larger boat you might run out to sea in a storm?-Yes.10,483. Do you do that sometimes with your small boats, and escape?-Yes.10,484. You think that is often a better course to take than running for the land in a storm?-Yes; the summer breezes are not very long.10,845. But do you do that in a winter storm?-In winter we do not go very far off the land in our small boats.
10,846. But in a winter storm with one of the large boats you are to try, you think you may run off to sea and be comparatively safe?- I think so.[Page 265]LERWICK: MONDAY, JANUARY 22, 1872 WILLIAM ROBERTSON, examined.10,847. You are cas.h.i.+er and princ.i.p.al clerk to Mr. Joseph Leask, merchant, s.h.i.+powner, and agent in Lerwick?-I am.10,848. You have been for nineteen years in his business, during which time you have been employed in s.h.i.+pping and discharging seamen, engaging and settling with fishermen, and employing and paying hundreds of labouring people?-I have.10,849. You are also fully acquainted with the barter system as it prevails in Shetland?-I am.10,850. I understand you desire to be examined with regard to the Report furnished to the Board of Trade in September 1870 by Mr.Hamilton, as well as on certain questions and answers in the Report of the Commission, of which you have given me a list?-I do.10,851. Will you give me, in the first place, a general description of Mr. Leask's business? He is, I believe, a proprietor of land to some extent in Shetland?-Yes, and he is also a pretty large proprietor of house property in town.10,852. What estates does he hold?-He has estates in West and South Yell, Ulsta and Coppister.10,853. Has Ulsta been long in his possession?-I think about ten years, but I could not exactly say.10,854. What is the extent of his estates in Yell?-There are about fifty tenants on the Yell property, and the annual value is upwards of 200.10,855. I understand that in Yell Mr. Leask now carries on the fis.h.i.+ng to a considerable extent?-He has only commenced in the past season to carry out the fis.h.i.+ng in Yell on his own account.10,856. Has he a station and shop there?-He has now. He commenced them at the beginning of this year at Ulsta. The shopkeeper is William Hughson.10,857. How many boats were employed there last year?-Four.10,858. Are the fishermen bound to fish for the proprietor?-They are not bound to fish. They requested Mr. Leask to employ them last year, and it was at their own request he did so.10,859. Who was the fish-curer at that station previously?- William Jack Williamson, and James Johnston. Williamson lived at Ulsta, and Johnston at West Yell Sound.10,860. Was the request you have mentioned from the fishermen to Mr. Leask to employ them a written one?-No; it was verbal.10,861. How was it conveyed to you?-By the people themselves.10,862. By how many of them?-By about half dozen or thereby; I cannot state the number exactly.10,863. Did they come to Lerwick for the purpose?-They always come to Lerwick in November to settle their rent accounts; and in November 1870 a few of them requested Mr. Leask to build boats for them, and they would fish to him rather than to Johnston and Williamson.10,864. Had Williamson given up business at that time?-No.10,865. Had he still a shop and curing station at Ulsta?-Yes.10,866. In consequence of the request made to you by the men, what steps were taken to take over the business at Ulsta?-The business was not taken over at all. Mr. Leask simply built boats for three crews, and employed three masters to obtain crews at Ulsta and West Yell. One boat belonged to Ulsta, and the other two to West Yell.10,867. Did Mr. Williamson hold premises from Mr. Leask on the Ulsta estate?-Yes.10,868. He paid rent for them, but he had no lease?-No.10,869. Did he receive notice that his tenure was at an end?-Yes; he received notice of that verbally two years or year and a half before he had to leave.10,870. Had he received it before the verbal requisition was made by the fishermen to Mr. Leask that he should take them into his service?-I think so; but I could not be sure.10,871. Was it in the contemplation of Mr. Leask to commence business there himself, at the time when he gave Williamson the first notice to leave?-I am not quite sure. I think he was not sure about it himself, whether he would commence business there on his own account, or let the premises to another party. The matter had not been fully considered; but I think Mr. Leask had it in contemplation to make some change, because the Yell people were not altogether satisfied with the state of matters at that time.10,872. And the requisition made by the six fishermen had the effect of bringing him to a decision?-I suppose it had; at any rate it helped. The men were all of opinion that they would be better served by Mr. Leask, than by any person whom he might send there.10,873. Were the fishermen under any obligation to fish for Williamson?-I don't think they were bound.10,874. Was there any understanding when he took his premises, that the fishermen on that estate should fish for him?-No. Mr.Williamson was on the estate before Mr. Leask bought it; and after Mr. Leask bought it the men were at liberty to go wherever they pleased, either to fish at home or to go to Greenland, or to go south, or anywhere they liked. They were not bound in any way.10,875. But when they did go to the home fis.h.i.+ng, were they at liberty to sell their fish to any one they chose?-The boats belonged to Williamson, and of course they would be bound to give him the fish.10,876. But were they at liberty to go in the boats of any other fish-curer?-Yes; they were at perfect liberty to fish for whom they pleased, so far as the landlord was concerned.10,877. Was there any written lease of the premises to Williamson at any time?-He never had any written lease, so far as I am aware.10,878. If there had been a written lease at the time when Mr.Leask bought the property, you would have been aware of it?-I think so.10,879. It would have come into your hands along with the other writings relative to the estate?-Yes.10,880. Either before or after the application of the West Yell tenants to Mr. Leask, was any intimation made to the rest of the tenants on that estate, or to the whole of them, that he (Mr. Leask) was about to open a shop there himself, and to receive fish?-The men who made the representation to Mr. Leask were given to understand that he would build boats for them; and when they went home they spread the report that Mr. Leask intended to do that.10,881. Was any written intimation made to the tenants to that effect?-None that I know of.10,882. Or any verbal intimation other than you have now mentioned?-The masters of the boats were to go and engage their own crews. We appointed masters, and they went among the tenants to engage whom they could get.10,883. What instructions were given to the masters?-They were engaged on the same terms as usual, and they were to be paid in the same way.10,884. But what instructions were given to them about telling the tenants?-There were no special instructions given at all.[Page 266]
10,846. But in a winter storm with one of the large boats you are to try, you think you may run off to sea and be comparatively safe?- I think so.[Page 265]LERWICK: MONDAY, JANUARY 22, 1872 WILLIAM ROBERTSON, examined.10,847. You are cas.h.i.+er and princ.i.p.al clerk to Mr. Joseph Leask, merchant, s.h.i.+powner, and agent in Lerwick?-I am.10,848. You have been for nineteen years in his business, during which time you have been employed in s.h.i.+pping and discharging seamen, engaging and settling with fishermen, and employing and paying hundreds of labouring people?-I have.10,849. You are also fully acquainted with the barter system as it prevails in Shetland?-I am.10,850. I understand you desire to be examined with regard to the Report furnished to the Board of Trade in September 1870 by Mr.Hamilton, as well as on certain questions and answers in the Report of the Commission, of which you have given me a list?-I do.10,851. Will you give me, in the first place, a general description of Mr. Leask's business? He is, I believe, a proprietor of land to some extent in Shetland?-Yes, and he is also a pretty large proprietor of house property in town.10,852. What estates does he hold?-He has estates in West and South Yell, Ulsta and Coppister.10,853. Has Ulsta been long in his possession?-I think about ten years, but I could not exactly say.10,854. What is the extent of his estates in Yell?-There are about fifty tenants on the Yell property, and the annual value is upwards of 200.10,855. I understand that in Yell Mr. Leask now carries on the fis.h.i.+ng to a considerable extent?-He has only commenced in the past season to carry out the fis.h.i.+ng in Yell on his own account.10,856. Has he a station and shop there?-He has now. He commenced them at the beginning of this year at Ulsta. The shopkeeper is William Hughson.10,857. How many boats were employed there last year?-Four.10,858. Are the fishermen bound to fish for the proprietor?-They are not bound to fish. They requested Mr. Leask to employ them last year, and it was at their own request he did so.10,859. Who was the fish-curer at that station previously?- William Jack Williamson, and James Johnston. Williamson lived at Ulsta, and Johnston at West Yell Sound.10,860. Was the request you have mentioned from the fishermen to Mr. Leask to employ them a written one?-No; it was verbal.10,861. How was it conveyed to you?-By the people themselves.10,862. By how many of them?-By about half dozen or thereby; I cannot state the number exactly.10,863. Did they come to Lerwick for the purpose?-They always come to Lerwick in November to settle their rent accounts; and in November 1870 a few of them requested Mr. Leask to build boats for them, and they would fish to him rather than to Johnston and Williamson.10,864. Had Williamson given up business at that time?-No.10,865. Had he still a shop and curing station at Ulsta?-Yes.10,866. In consequence of the request made to you by the men, what steps were taken to take over the business at Ulsta?-The business was not taken over at all. Mr. Leask simply built boats for three crews, and employed three masters to obtain crews at Ulsta and West Yell. One boat belonged to Ulsta, and the other two to West Yell.10,867. Did Mr. Williamson hold premises from Mr. Leask on the Ulsta estate?-Yes.10,868. He paid rent for them, but he had no lease?-No.10,869. Did he receive notice that his tenure was at an end?-Yes; he received notice of that verbally two years or year and a half before he had to leave.10,870. Had he received it before the verbal requisition was made by the fishermen to Mr. Leask that he should take them into his service?-I think so; but I could not be sure.10,871. Was it in the contemplation of Mr. Leask to commence business there himself, at the time when he gave Williamson the first notice to leave?-I am not quite sure. I think he was not sure about it himself, whether he would commence business there on his own account, or let the premises to another party. The matter had not been fully considered; but I think Mr. Leask had it in contemplation to make some change, because the Yell people were not altogether satisfied with the state of matters at that time.10,872. And the requisition made by the six fishermen had the effect of bringing him to a decision?-I suppose it had; at any rate it helped. The men were all of opinion that they would be better served by Mr. Leask, than by any person whom he might send there.10,873. Were the fishermen under any obligation to fish for Williamson?-I don't think they were bound.10,874. Was there any understanding when he took his premises, that the fishermen on that estate should fish for him?-No. Mr.Williamson was on the estate before Mr. Leask bought it; and after Mr. Leask bought it the men were at liberty to go wherever they pleased, either to fish at home or to go to Greenland, or to go south, or anywhere they liked. They were not bound in any way.10,875. But when they did go to the home fis.h.i.+ng, were they at liberty to sell their fish to any one they chose?-The boats belonged to Williamson, and of course they would be bound to give him the fish.10,876. But were they at liberty to go in the boats of any other fish-curer?-Yes; they were at perfect liberty to fish for whom they pleased, so far as the landlord was concerned.10,877. Was there any written lease of the premises to Williamson at any time?-He never had any written lease, so far as I am aware.10,878. If there had been a written lease at the time when Mr.Leask bought the property, you would have been aware of it?-I think so.10,879. It would have come into your hands along with the other writings relative to the estate?-Yes.10,880. Either before or after the application of the West Yell tenants to Mr. Leask, was any intimation made to the rest of the tenants on that estate, or to the whole of them, that he (Mr. Leask) was about to open a shop there himself, and to receive fish?-The men who made the representation to Mr. Leask were given to understand that he would build boats for them; and when they went home they spread the report that Mr. Leask intended to do that.10,881. Was any written intimation made to the tenants to that effect?-None that I know of.10,882. Or any verbal intimation other than you have now mentioned?-The masters of the boats were to go and engage their own crews. We appointed masters, and they went among the tenants to engage whom they could get.10,883. What instructions were given to the masters?-They were engaged on the same terms as usual, and they were to be paid in the same way.10,884. But what instructions were given to them about telling the tenants?-There were no special instructions given at all.[Page 266]
