Black and White Part 15

Q. From what States?

--A. From the Atlantic and Gulf States.

Q. What became of them?

--A. They were scattered along the alluvial lands of the Mississippi Valley. As the negroes of the Mississippi Valley either immigrate from that valley and go in different directions and buy land, the planters of the Mississippi Valley send out to the older States and replace them with labor from those States. A negro in the older States, probably, to make his support would have to cultivate 15 or 20 acres of land, whereas a negro in the Mississippi Valley can make his support on 8 or 10 acres of land.

Q. Will this result in the owners.h.i.+p of the alluvial lands being transferred to the negro?

--A. No, sir; because as he makes money he goes off.

Q. He is a Chinese immigrant?--A. I mean by "goes off" he does not go out of the State, but he goes to the hills.

Q. And to smaller owners.h.i.+ps?--A. To smaller owners.h.i.+ps.

Q. And the aim of the Southern planter is to accommodate this tendency of things to smaller rentings?

--A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you think a plantation is more productive where, under a general supervision by the planter or the owner, it is let out in small sections to the negroes to cultivate, or is it better to cultivate the plantation as a whole?

--A. It is better to let it out, as I stated in my written answers. The cotton crop of this country is being raised to such an extent by the small white farmers that the large planter can no longer afford to hire and compete with that cla.s.s of labor who only expend their own energy; consequently the tendency is to make farmers of the negroes.

Q. What chance is there of the planter securing white labor to carry on these plantations?

--A. There is such a small proportion of white labor in the South that it would be difficult for him to find them, and the tide of foreign immigration is just beginning to be turned in that direction. There has been a prejudice against white emigrants going to the South, on account of going among the negroes.

Q. Do you think that is diminis.h.i.+ng?

--A. Diminis.h.i.+ng yearly.

Q. You mean that immigration from Europe is being employed on the plantations?

--A. Not exactly upon the large cotton plantations, but the smaller plantations are now being converted into farms. For instance, there has been a large immigration of European emigrants into that section of the country between Little Rock and Fort Smith.

Q. Do they, upon these farm or small plantations being converted into farms, work in companions.h.i.+p with the negro laborer?

--A. No; they generally buy the land and work it themselves; they may hire a negro and work with him; they are laborers themselves.

Q. Is there any tendency among the white and colored laborers of any cla.s.s to work in companions.h.i.+p, or to fraternize at all in labor?

--A. I cannot say that there is. A white man would not take a negro in as a partner to work with him in the field.

Q. And will a white man find any difficulty in hiring another white man and negro to work together side by side in the field?

--A. No, sir; I have them myself working side by side.

Q. There is no prejudice of that kind?

--A. None at all.

Q. No white man inquires whether he can work by himself or is to work in company with a negro? Do they exhibit any reluctance to work in company with the negro?

--A. The cla.s.s of white people that work in our country for wages comes from Ohio, and Missouri, and Indiana, and that section of country, and I find there is some prejudice among that cla.s.s of people sometimes, but still there are instances--as I say, I have men from Indiana now myself hired working right in a gang with negroes.

Q. There is no strong tendency in that way, I suppose?

--A. No strong tendency in that way. There are no white laborers from the South proper; at least the number we can hire for wages is so small that it is not sufficient to call it a cla.s.s.

Q. In the Southern States proper about two thirds of the population is white, is it not?

--A. I do not recollect. According to the census returns I think there are about seven millions of negroes. The census would give the exact statement.

Q. Not far from two thirds of the population, I think, is white. In the Gulf States proper at least one half the population must be white. In what way is the white laboring population of the South employed?

--A. They are employed as small farmers nearly almost entirely.

Q. Not to as great extent as mechanics and artisans?

--A. I suppose there is a liberal proportion of them to the population; we have to have our artisans and mechanics; but as a rule the white population of the South are small farmers, either owners of the land themselves or tenants.

Q. How as to their material prosperity and thrift and saving?

--A. It varies very much. For instance, take the State of Georgia--and I believe it is admitted that Georgia is one of the most thrifty and prosperous of all the Southern States--I think the small farmers are generally self-sustaining; they raise their own supplies.

Q. Do these small white farmers employ negro help to any extent?

--A. To a certain extent. If a man has more land than his family can work he will hire a negro laborer. There is no prejudice against his doing so either on the part of the farmer hiring him or the negro hired.

Q. He may hire some white and other colored laborers, I suppose?

--A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do they work together?

--A. Yes, sir.

Q. How in regard to the value of the hill lands you have spoken of in the State of Arkansas; as compared with the alluvial, what is the difference in value?

--A. It is very great. There are farms in Arkansas that can be bought, partially cleared up, and with some improvements upon them, for from $5 to $20 an acre, less than the rent of fair lands on the river. There is no finer section of country in the world--I say that unhesitatingly--for a foreign immigrant, or the immigrant from the East, or from anywhere, than is afforded to-day in Arkansas and Texas.

Q. And political disturbances are at an end?

--A. We apprehend nothing at all; there is no reason why we should.

Q. You were speaking of the necessity of the education of the laborer of the South, the negro especially. Will you not describe to us the actual condition of the ma.s.ses of the colored people in the matter of education, to what extent it has progressed, and what facilities and opportunities exist, and what additional are required?

--A. It varies in different sections. For instance, Georgia, and Tennessee are probably ahead of any of the Southern States in point of educating the colored people; they have more facilities; they have negro primary schools and colleges where a man is educated. The education that I was speaking of, more particularly for the negro, is a plain English education, sufficient to enable him to read and write.

Q. What we call up North a common school education?

--A. A common school education. I will ill.u.s.trate that.

Suppose a negro comes to me to make a contract that I have written for him, and he cannot read or write. I offer that contract to him, and I read it to him. He touches a pen and signs his mark to it; there is no obligation attached at all. He says at once, "That man is an educated man; he has the advantage of me; he shows me that contract; I do not know what is in it; I cannot even read it." Therefore a contract made with a negro in that way is almost a nullity; but if he could read that contract himself and sign his own name to it, it would be a very different thing. I never allow a negro to sign a written contract with me before he has taken it home with him and had some friend to read it over and consult with him about it, because I want some obligation attached to my contracts.

Q. It is necessary for you as well as the negro?

--A. Necessary for my protection as well as his.

Q. How many of the negroes on the plantations can comprehend a written contract by reading it, because a man may be somewhat educated and not be able to decipher a contract?

--A. I cannot give you an exact proportion, for it varies to a great extent. I can only say that that number is increasing rapidly.

Q. From what circ.u.mstances comes this increase?

--A. From their desire to gain knowledge.

Q. Do you find that desire strong among the colored people?

--A. Very strong indeed; and there are two ideas which a negro possesses that give me great hopes for his future. If I did not believe the negro was capable of sufficient development to make him a responsible small farmer, I should not want to remain in the business that I am any longer, because I believe that the development of my business is necessarily based upon the development of the negro and the cultivation of my lands. The negro possesses two remarkable qualifications: one is that he is imitative, and the other is that he has got pride; he wants to dress well; he wants to do as well as anybody else does when you get him aroused, and with these two qualifications I have very great hopes for him in the future.

Q. What do you think of his intellectual and moral qualities and his capacity for development?

--A. There are individual instances I know of where negroes have received and taken a good education. As a cla.s.s, it would probably be several generations, at any rate, before they would be able to compete with the Caucasian. I believe that the negro is capable of receiving an ordinary English education, and there are instances where they enter professions and become good lawyers. For instance, I know in the town of Greenville, Miss., right across the river from me, a negro attorney, who is a very intelligent man, and I heard one of the leading attorneys in Greenville say he would almost have anybody on the opposite side of a case rather than he would that negro. The sheriff of my county is from Ohio, and a negro, he is a man whom we all support in his office. We are anxious that the negroes should have a fair representation. For instance, you ask for the feeling existing between the proprietor and the negroes. The probate judge of my county is a negro and one of my tenants, and I am here now in New York attending to important business for my county as an appointee of that man. He has upon him the responsibilities of all estates in the county; he is probate judge.

Q. Is he a capable man?

--A. A very capable man, and an excellent, good man, and a very just one.

Q. Do you see any reason why, with fair opportunities a.s.sured to himself and to his children, he may not become a useful and competent, American citizen?